Jenova Chen (Part I)

Part I. How a game designer with “terrible English” and no business background convinced Sony after 19 rejections.

Eden Chen (CEO of Pragma) and Kevin Zhang (Partner at Upfront Ventures) interview Jenova Chen, founder and Creative Director of thatgamecompany, creator of acclaimed titles like Cloud, Flow, Flower, Journey, and Sky: Children of the Light. After earning a computer science degree in Shanghai, Chen moved to Los Angeles to study at USC’s Interactive Media Division, where his student project “Cloud” became a viral sensation. His games have earned tremendous acclaim, and Journey holds the highest historical aggregate rating on Metacritic for any PlayStation Network exclusive title.

The conversation explores Chen’s emotional design philosophy and entrepreneurial journey, from pitching 19 publishers before securing a Sony deal to raising venture capital. His work in positive psychology and design anthropology has pioneered experiences focused on connection rather than violence, showing how persistence and a willingness to explore uncharted creative territory drove his success.

Jenova Chen is the founder and Creative Director of thatgamecompany. After earning a computer science degree in Shanghai, he studied at USC’s Interactive Media Division where “Cloud” became a viral phenomenon. Named to MIT Technology Review’s TR35 list of top innovators under 35, Chen specializes in emotional game design and positive psychology.

Discussion points#

• (00:00) Jenova’s journey, from childhood gaming passion against his parents’ wishes to USC film school and the groundbreaking Cloud game
• (16:07) Breaking through, the viral success of Cloud, emotional player feedback, and relentless pitching to 19 publishers before securing a Sony deal
• (24:04) Building the company, finding trusted partners, establishing thatgamecompany, and securing funding after Journey’s success
• (34:03) Emotional design philosophy, approaching games as an emotional business and finding the untapped market beyond male-oriented experiences
• (47:12) Industry perspective, innovation versus “quick follow” games, and why most developers avoid uncharted emotional territory
• (50:33) Lightning round, reflections, dream collaborations, and the lesson that challenges ultimately make the journey worthwhile